Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Piri Reis

Nominator(s): Rjjiii (talk)

I am nominating my first article for A-Class review because it has passed a GA review, and I would like to improve it to Featured Article status in the future. I checked out a couple Featured Articles on military leaders to compare and saw that they had gone through and benefited from A class reviews (which seem rare for most subjects). Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 02:55, 25 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Support from Hawkeye7

Before I read this article, I had never heard of him. Yet he has articles in 56 languages - quite an achievement even for a cartographer. I am curious as to what led you to chose to work on this subject. Not my area of expertise either, but I have comments to prove that I read it:

Infobox image caption: Any idea where this statue is?
- Karaman, Turkey. I added that to the infobox and added the address and coordinates to the commons page.Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 01:22, 7 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
"He was born in Gallipoli" I don't mind using the old at all (I use "Kiev" all the time) but in the image caption, I think it should say "Gelibolu"
- Swapped them all to Gelibolu. Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 01:22, 7 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
"When his 1513 world map was unearthed at the Topkapı Palace in Istanbul, it drew international attention." When was this?
- 1929. Added into the article. Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 01:22, 7 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
"Early life and piracy" - you don't see that heading very often.
- Lol, no, but it was sort of the family business. Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 01:22, 7 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
"The sultan had him beheaded in Cairo" Any idea why?
- I expanded this into a whole paragraph. It resulted from his lifting the siege. Returning with a bunch of gold played a role in the execution, but it is not 100% clear how. WP:RS say that some of the Ottoman histories and a letter from Venetians written not too long after accuse him of bribery. This is likely not true, again according to RS, because the people that he robbed in the Persian Gulf showed up in Istanbul demanding their money back, but it may have been believed to be true at the time. Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 01:22, 7 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
"the remaining fragment garnered international attention for including a partial copy of an otherwise lost map by Christopher Columbus." How did they know that? (Suggest moving note a and/or incorporating some explanatory text.)
- Moved the note and also expanded some explanatory text there, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 01:22, 7 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
"Surviving fragment of the second World Map of Piri Reis" Why are we capitalising "World Map"?
- Lowercase now, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 01:22, 7 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
In Further reading, "The Maps of Piri Reis" seems out of alphabetic order
- Fixed, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 01:22, 7 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Hawkeye7 (discuss) 22:14, 31 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the feedback, Hawkeye7! I think I've addressed the points above. As far as why "work on this subject", years and years ago, I read about him via dialup on some Geocities page, but it was this spooky stuff about how he had mapped Antarctica from space, and I couldn't find more info about him online. My library had actual books about Piri Reis, but it was more spooky stuff. Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 01:22, 7 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Support Hawkeye7 (discuss) 03:42, 7 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Comments Support by Zawed

An interesting article, which makes a change from the more modern Milhist articles I tend to review. Some comments:

Lead

He created his first world map and likely began drafting the...: This doesn't make it clear that this is (presumably) the map of 1513 which is part of his notability. Also, with reference to the Notable work in the infobox, I think it should be identified as 1513 world map there too for consistency
- Done, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 04:24, 21 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
After their victory, he presented the world map: is this the 1513 world map or another map?
- 1513, clarified in article, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 03:01, 14 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
suggest linking Grand Vizier
- Done, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 03:01, 14 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
why isn't the Hind of In 1546, Piri Reis became Hind Kapudan-ı Derya part of the blue link for Kapudan-ı Derya?
- Fixed, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 03:01, 14 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
he was executed in 1553 in Cairo.: The article body says the date of his execution is unknown. My copy of "The Oxford Companion to World Exploration" (Ed. David Buisseret) has an entry for Reis by McIntosh (the 2000a McIntosh ref is given as a source). That gives a year of death of 1554, not 1553 as stated in lead/infobox.
- I've added an explanatory note and duplicated a citation to that part of the lead. I think most older sources say 1554 or around 1554. In the past couple decades, European letters have turned up that allow historians to be more specific. The abstract of Pedani (2015) says, "his death that happened in Cairo in 1553 (and not 1554 as many scholars have thought till now" and the cited page says, "For this fact he was beheaded in Cairo by order of the sultan. We do not know when this actually happened. On his coming back to Venice, on 17 August 1554, the Venetian consul in Cairo Daniele Barbarigo (1550-1553) reported that Piri Reis had been killed because he had not done his duty. This diplomat had finished his charge in March 1553, but his successor arrived in Egypt on the following 14 December and he had to wait for him31. Other Venetian sources say that something very remarkable happened in Cairo between January and February 1553, but they do not explain exactly what really happened32. On 16 December 1553, however, a letter written in Constantinople on 15 November 1553 reached Venice. It said that Piri Reis had been beheaded in Cairo [...] (Pedani, 2015, p. 324)". Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 03:01, 14 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
little appreciation during his own life.: suggest "during his lifetime."
- Done, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 03:01, 14 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Early life

...he began sailing with his uncle Kemal Reis.[4] Kemal was a...: suggest rephrasing to avoid the close, repeated usage of Kemal
- Done, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 04:24, 21 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Naval career

link Ottoman Navy on first mention
- Done, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 18:35, 16 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Piri Reis was with his uncle through this and later documented...: suggest "Piri Reis was with his uncle at this time and later documented"
- Done, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 03:01, 14 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
After the Ottoman navy defeated the Venetian fleet at the Peloponnese,: navy here should be Navy
- Fixed, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 03:01, 14 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
and Pianosa in the western Mediterranean.: shouldn't that be Western (I see Eastern is used in previous sentence)
- Western is correct, but I've tried a different wording to make the text more clear. Most of their activity during this period was to the east where they pushed back against Venice. The raids in the West are notable as the likely origin of some of Piri Reis' source maps. Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 02:28, 23 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The finished manuscript of his first world map: make clear that this is the world map?
- Done, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 04:24, 21 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
By 1516, Piri Reis returned to the navy as captain of a galley in the Ottoman fleet: the previous sentence says he was back in the navy by 1513, so suggest wording this excerpt as "By 1516, Piri Reis was a captain of a galley in the Ottoman fleet"
- Done, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 18:35, 16 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Piri Reis presented the 1513 world map to Sultan Selim I: suggest "Piri Reis presented his 1513 world map to Sultan Selim I"
- Done, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 18:35, 16 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Piri Reis was no longer with the Ottoman navy in 1518: again, Navy
- Fixed, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 03:01, 14 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
childhood friend Pargalı Ibrahim Pasha who rose to grand vizier of the empire.: suggest "childhood friend Pargalı Ibrahim Pasha who rose to become grand vizier of the empire."
- Done, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 03:01, 14 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
In 1532, he fought back Dalmatian pirates in the Adriatic.: suggest "In 1532, he fought against Dalmatian pirates in the Adriatic."
- Done, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 03:01, 14 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
chased Venetian ships out of the eastern Mediterranean.: again, eastern versus Eastern
- Done, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 03:01, 14 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Grand Admiral of the Indian Ocean Fleet

Piri Reis took his position as Hind Kapudan-ı Derya,: shouldn't Hind be part of the following blue link?
- Moved it in, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 03:01, 14 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
link Suez
- Linked, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 03:01, 14 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
while the Ottoman navy relied mainly: again, Navy
- Done, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 03:01, 14 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
In 1552, the Turkish fleet...: suggest "In August" (I also see the map of Piri Reis' expedition against Hormuz Island gives the month as August)
- Done, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 18:35, 16 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The Turkish soldiers took the City of Hormuz,: suggest specifying the month - presumably it was September as per the expedition map
- Done, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk)
link Qeshm
- Linked once in the lead and once in the body, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 03:01, 14 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
See comment in lead RE date of execution
- Lengthy reponse up there ↑ Let me know if this section is unclear, and I can go into more details about the date of execution in the body. Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 03:01, 14 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Piri Reis map of 1513

Suggest trimming the first paragraph a little since it has previously been established that the map was given to Selim I
- I've done some trimming, but left a briefer mention as many readers will skim down the section they're looking for. Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 02:28, 23 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Kitab-ı Bahriye

Again, suggest a little trimming (the second para this time) as it has been stated elsewhere that this was a commission from the grand vizier
- Similar to the above, I'm trimmed it but left a brief mention, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 02:28, 23 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

One final comment is that you should run the Dupe links tool. This will highlight a number of duplicate links, 2nd and successive usages (they are indicated by in red box) which should be removed. All in all though, an enjoyable read. Cheers, Zawed (talk) 03:01, 13 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I ran the duplicate links script. I don't think there are duplicate links within any sections now. There are still duplicates between the lead and some body sections but I think that is fine, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 02:28, 23 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the feedback! I've started going through the notes above, Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 03:01, 14 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Zawed: I appreciate all the feedback. I think I've addressed the notes above, but feel free to offer any additional notes or clarification. Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 02:28, 23 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Zawed? Rjjⁱⁱⁱ (talk) 03:36, 5 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I have added my support. Zawed (talk) 09:50, 7 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]