Talk:Reusable launch system

Comments

I disagree that this title should redirect to Space Shuttle.

As mention on Wikipedia:Cleanup by myself and two other people (which seems good, as it is not a subject which engenders much interest in the general public), the Shuttle is merely one example of a reusable launch system.

My initial reason for creating the article was to provide the match for the Expendable Launch System article. I then planned to link to pages on other proposed reusable launch systems. It seems improper to do so from within the Space Shuttle article.

There is already a considerable portion of the population who think that the Space Shuttle is the embodyment of a reusable launch system. This is a result of nasa's heavy work to promote it during the 70s and 80s. I really hate to reenforce this flawed viewpoint.

The Space Shuttle is one example of a PARTIALLY reusable launch system. A seriously flawed partially reusable launch system. It is unfortunate that the general concept, which has yet to be treated to a proper test, is forced to be viewed through the narrow box of its one partial functioning example. Audin 05:34, 8 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Buran

Should Buran not be a fully reusable launch system? It is the Energia rocket which is not reusable, but the rocket is a separate system, unlike the Shuttle system, which contains not reusable parts such as fuel tank and solid boosters. --Bricktop 21:26, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The Shuttle solid rockets are reusable (although allegedly a refit costs 90% of making new ones) and reused.

All parts of Buran were designed to be reusable, except for the main tank. (IIRC the main engines were in an engine pod with a parachute, which was retrieved at least once to check for engine damage, the liquid strapon boosters also were reusable, as of course the orbiter). However, most of the Buran infrastructure has been lost due to the collapse of the Soviet Union. No flight worthy vehicles survive today either, to the best of my knowledge. Quasarstrider 18:46, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Buran itself has no fuel tank (except an iternal tanks for orbital purposes - docking, orbit change maneuvers - which are reusable) and no liquid boosters. These parts are the Energia rocket, which itself is only a carrier for Buran, but can also launch other payloads (see Polyus). From that point of view Buran is fully reusable. --Bricktop 19:42, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Ok, I should have said Energia. But your argument is pointless. The Shuttle Orbiter (the analog of Buran) is also fully reusable. Buran could not reach orbit without Energia to boost it. Energia+Buran is not more reusable than the Shuttle launch system. Quasarstrider 16:37, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Dense fuel?

What is dense fuel? -- Cimon avaro; on a pogostick. 10:14, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Basically, almost any fuel except hydrogen. Some fuels like methane are borderline. The relative density of liquid hydrogen is 0.07 (water is 1, LOX is 1.4, kerosene IRC is about 1.1). For liquids with a relative density of about 1, a tank weighs about 1% of the contents. The same tank with hydrogen in is about 14% or so. Also, hydrogen needs lots of insulation... state of the art hydrogen tanks are under 10% of the weight. This extra tankage weight (as well as other knock-on effects in pipes and pumps) makes a huge reduction in performance; roughly cancelling for the extra Isp that hydrogen gives (for lower stages, upper stages do better with hydrogen).WolfKeeper 13:25, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Destination Moon DVD.jpg

Image:Destination Moon DVD.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 21:55, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Introduction is confusing and more complete discussion of the RLV program needed (X-33, X-34, DC-X, X-37, Shuttle program termination)

Reusable launch vehicles are a critical element of the future space program. However the initial paragraph is confusing. The article is on reusable launch vehicle, a common and important concept, yet the initial reference is to 'reusable lauch system" which is not a term in common use. Is anyone else re-editing this? If not, i'd like to revise as follows:

==

A reusable launch vehicle (RLV) can be fully or partially reused in repeated missions. This contrasts with an expendable launch vehicle, which is launched once and then discarded. The majority of the cost of space launch is in the construction of the ELV; the cost of the fuel is less than .5% of the mission cost. Consequently reuse of the launch vehicle can sprovide substantial reduction in launch costs. However reuse requires the development and testing of new technologies for propulsion, thermal protection, aerodynamics, guidance, and landing.

The Space Shuttle is the only operational orbital RLV, and is only partially reusable as the external tank is expendable and the solid-fueled rocket boosters (SRBs) must be fully diassembled and rebuilt after each mission. However the X-15 and SpaceShip 1 were reusable suborbital space launch vehicles.

==

Also, the discussion of the X-33, X-34, and even the decision to replace the Space Shtuttle is very limited and leaves out criical aspects like the TSTO plans worked out in some detail, mainly at Langley Research Center, for a flyback booster and upper stage, both fully reusable. There's also limited discussion fo the ecomnomics. I would be glad to add to it if no one else volunteers. Danwoodard (talk) 14:16, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Let's fix the redirect

"Reusable launch vehicle" redirects to "reusable launch system." It should be the other way around. "Reusable launch vehicle" is such a commonly-used phrase that there's an acronym for it: RLV. The article itself uses this acronym five times. On the other hand, due to infrequent use of the phrase "reusable launch system," it's extremely rare to see the acronym "RLS" in use. GPS Pilot (talk) 05:17, 4 October 2011 (UTC)

SpaceX Falcon 1 not reusable

Falcon 1 was supposed to be partially reusable, but they never got the parachute recovery working, it only flew as expendable rocket, and the rocket itself has been retired. So it should be dropped from the list of reusable lauch systems. --Hkultala (talk) 06:56, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

SpaceX is not developing reusable spacecraft

In the article it is stated that: "SpaceX reusable rocket launching system—(currently in development and test)—is planned for use on both the Falcon 9 and Falcon Heavy launch vehicles."

In the interest of accuracy, it should be noted that one of the most expensive throwaway items is the turbo pumps around which the motors are built. SpaceX does not make turbo pumps and they have no plans that I am aware of to produce a reusable turbo pump, and therefore no plans to produce a reusable rocket motor. Since the turbo pumps are such a significant portion of costs, this must be germane to any claim of reusability. This is particularly true considering the fact that SpaceX makes use of a large number of rocket motors. What they are seeking to make reusable is the airframe (for lack of a better word); or the rest of the spacecraft. I recommend that you replace the former with the following:

"SpaceX partially reusable rocket launching system—(currently in development and test)—is planned for use on both the Falcon 9 and Falcon Heavy launch vehicles. While other components are to be reusable, SpaceX has made no announcements regarding the development and adoption of reusable rocket turbo pumps or rocket motor components".

174.131.5.205 (talk) 22:00, 22 August 2013 (UTC)

SpaceX does make its own turbopumps now (they used to be made by Barber-Nichols) and they have said the engines will be reusable. Martijn Meijering (talk) 22:16, 22 August 2013 (UTC)